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DLPB_
Guest
Do they not even realize how absurd they look?
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Jahiliyyah
Guest
God I hope Britbongs don't shoot themselves in the foot and remain. November can't come soon enough.
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DLPB_
Guest
I wouldn't be surprised if "we" do. The people of Britain have been dumbed down for decades - and many of them see the EU as a "hand out" club of benefits. They don't see any of the wider arguments. The working class are their own worst enemy - they decry lack of school places, lack of homes, NHS waiting times, massive immigration - and then go and vote for an organization that creates many of those problems and wants to admit Turkey. It also has a "free movement" open border policy that is crippling our economies and security. Many in my family have suffered hardship due to leftist policies but they still vote left and EU. I really don't know what to say.
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nfitc1
Guest
Just heard that Britain has officially Voted to leave the EU. This'll get messy for those that still remain. Britain may not have gotten anything out of them, but they won't be as strong as they were.
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KnifeTheSky77
Guest
Whoa, this sounds like a big deal. I should start buying UK stocks, the pound is tanking
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DLPB_
Guest
It isn't tanking at all - it's simply what happens under this kind of change. It will stabilize. Things will be a vast improvement for most people away from that lying deceitful organization - that puts Islam and migration above women and everyone else for that matter. That interferes with everything and is a big undemocratic dinosaur that costed Britain a fortune in membership fees. I can hardly believe that we actually voted out. A proud day for Britain - specifically England and Wales - to finally be rid of the EU. Europe yes. EU no.
We will do fine. We were once a military superpower - and we were not part of the EU when this happened. We were not some silly powerless country before the EU 40 years ago either.
What would have been weak would be being governed by people we cannot elect.
Hello sovereignty! Bye bye EU.
Edit.
I must confess to having a lot of fun this morning reading all the rants from the remainers - the usual "You are a raaaaaycist" doing the rounds. The left still in a state of denial and still making the same errors that pushed so many to leave. Calling people a racist for voicing legitimate concerns is long past its sell by date.
We will do fine. We were once a military superpower - and we were not part of the EU when this happened. We were not some silly powerless country before the EU 40 years ago either.
What would have been weak would be being governed by people we cannot elect.
Hello sovereignty! Bye bye EU.
Edit.
I must confess to having a lot of fun this morning reading all the rants from the remainers - the usual "You are a raaaaaycist" doing the rounds. The left still in a state of denial and still making the same errors that pushed so many to leave. Calling people a racist for voicing legitimate concerns is long past its sell by date.
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nfitc1
Guest
The Pound has reserve funds to keep it from tanking long-term. Of course it was going to go down if the exit went through, but nearly a century of economics have taught banks how to stall such a decline.
Again, rebuttal that you don't care how others are misinterpreting the entire situation, but that's always going to color their dealings with you in the future.
Devil's advocate aside, I wish Britain all the best of luck with what will certainly be an uncertain transition from conglomerate member to standalone sovereignty. It can work in Britain's favor for sure.
That's an outdated argument too. You were a military superpower in WWII and have not had to be since. There have been major advancements in industry and design of war machines since then. Forgive me it this analogy doesn't apply, but it sounds like you're claiming you can be a smartphone hacker because you developed for Windows 3.1.
Scotland and Ireland say "HELP US, EU!!" What would it do to the UK to lose them? Admittedly, probably not much, but they don't feel like the UK is enough for them. If they leave then you are the odd ones out.
This is the strongest argument for leaving the under represented EU. This is also why the US left England. UK was the EU's trump card economically and now it's lost it.
Meat and potatoes time: leaving the EU would NOT have even come up if the EU weren't expressing refugees to the Isle in the first place. You can site other compounding issues leading up to it and even claim that the US Civil War wasn't about slavery, but it was the tipping point. As such you can see how the rest of the world, who are more focused on their own political problems, view your vote as a direct response to the influx of publicly unwanted refugees. It makes you appear racist and uncaring.
Again, rebuttal that you don't care how others are misinterpreting the entire situation, but that's always going to color their dealings with you in the future.
Devil's advocate aside, I wish Britain all the best of luck with what will certainly be an uncertain transition from conglomerate member to standalone sovereignty. It can work in Britain's favor for sure.
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Tekkie.X
Guest
Scottish and N. Irish folks and MPs are asking for independence votes and it's looking likely, many Scots, myself included, voted to stay in the UK in order to continue being part of the EU in the first place and now a difference of 1.4 million people has shat all over that plan.
As a side note, the current UK immigration issue is a problem regardless of us being in the EU or not, so using it as a reason for voting leave is plain stupid, we'll still get literal truckloads of them coming in for years to come.
As a side note, the current UK immigration issue is a problem regardless of us being in the EU or not, so using it as a reason for voting leave is plain stupid, we'll still get literal truckloads of them coming in for years to come.
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KnifeTheSky77
Guest
As a clueless outsider just looking at the poll results, the average opinion across the UK looked pretty conflicted. Does that mean that the UK is going to break up eventually?
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DLPB_
Guest
@knifethesky Scotland and NI really have no political power to break free (and Southern Ireland don't want to reunite). The English (UK) parliament holds the power and can deny them a referendum. Scotland has just had one - so I doubt it will be granted another. But I wouldn't be bothered either way. I assume financially, it would be a bad thing if it left, but I don't know.
No, it really isn't. Inside the EU we HAD to have open borders. We were part of free movement and we had NO way to stop it. No way to elect anyone who was against it and implement any change. Soon, Turkey will also be fast tracked into the club - and that's another ton who will make their way to European countries. Germany had admitted 1 million migrants - a large proportion of those people would also be heading to Britain LEGALLY if we were part of the EU.
We are now a full sovereign state. A lot of problems to fix - and I agree with the turds we have in charge, it won't be fixed overnight... but at least now we a chance. And at least now we are governing ourselves. That's democracy, folks. The EU is anything but and it's gonna die.
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Tarts
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https://www.rt.com/uk/346505-brexit-how-long-leave/, while UK may now be officially out of the EU, negotiations still need to be held to formalize it. Some excerpts: "Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that a member state seeking to leave the EU has two-years to complete negotiations on how it will withdraw and what it’s relationship with the bloc will be like post-Brexit.".
Also,
"Although contractual ties could be dissolved in two years, Tusk said that getting every country to approve the agreement could take much longer.
“Every single one of the 27 member states as well as the European parliament would have to approve the overall result. That would take at least five years, and I'm afraid, without any guarantee of success.”"
The bolded passage implies that the process could be stalled or even reversed by fellow members and the European Parliament. I doubt it, however, the negotiations may indeed go a long time before things like EU legislation are actually phased out.
I predict hard times for UK, not because of Brexit itself (which I support), but because the elites in power, who still support the EU, are going to sabotage and blame all the post-vote ills on the final result, even though initial economic problems were always gonna happen no matter how bad or good the leadership was. With these crooks in power, however, it's definitely not gonna be as smooth. It's not out of question that after UK's economy suffers a slump, that they'll propose another referendum "to discuss things more soberly now", probably even citing the fact that only slightly under 49% were against it. strawberries, am I giving them ideas?
NFITC1, opposition to immigration is perfectly legitimate due to identitarian and economic problems. Despite media disinformation in that respect, most of the people that entered Europe in 2015 weren't even refugees. It's deceptive to constantly show images of children and old people when young men of fighting age who were surprisingly healthy were and probably still are the most represented demographic of people freely entering Europe and against the best wishes of native Europeans.
Also,
"Although contractual ties could be dissolved in two years, Tusk said that getting every country to approve the agreement could take much longer.
“Every single one of the 27 member states as well as the European parliament would have to approve the overall result. That would take at least five years, and I'm afraid, without any guarantee of success.”"
The bolded passage implies that the process could be stalled or even reversed by fellow members and the European Parliament. I doubt it, however, the negotiations may indeed go a long time before things like EU legislation are actually phased out.
I predict hard times for UK, not because of Brexit itself (which I support), but because the elites in power, who still support the EU, are going to sabotage and blame all the post-vote ills on the final result, even though initial economic problems were always gonna happen no matter how bad or good the leadership was. With these crooks in power, however, it's definitely not gonna be as smooth. It's not out of question that after UK's economy suffers a slump, that they'll propose another referendum "to discuss things more soberly now", probably even citing the fact that only slightly under 49% were against it. strawberries, am I giving them ideas?
NFITC1, opposition to immigration is perfectly legitimate due to identitarian and economic problems. Despite media disinformation in that respect, most of the people that entered Europe in 2015 weren't even refugees. It's deceptive to constantly show images of children and old people when young men of fighting age who were surprisingly healthy were and probably still are the most represented demographic of people freely entering Europe and against the best wishes of native Europeans.
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DLPB_
Guest
It won't be reversed. Some people are holding on to a hope that simply isn't possible. We are out of the EU - and it's already started. The leaders of the EU are already on record as saying they want us out as fast as possible.
Even in the 1000000000-1 chance they even tried, there would be mass riots. I'd be one of the participants.
The majority of people who are clinging on to this hope that it can be blocked or reversed are in a state of denial - Another thing the left excel at.
Even in the 1000000000-1 chance they even tried, there would be mass riots. I'd be one of the participants.
The majority of people who are clinging on to this hope that it can be blocked or reversed are in a state of denial - Another thing the left excel at.
Spot on. TO get to Britain you need to have gone through quite a few safe countries. It's a fact that all of them are entering Britain with no legal right to do so - and it's also a fact that most aren't even fleeing Syria. Sadly, most are also Muslims from the most backward countries there are - who then create massive issues with lack of cohesion and religious intolerance in the country they have resettled in. No thanks.
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DLPB_
Guest
If you want a laugh, read the BBC low rated comments - or the Guardian comments. Check it out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36615028
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36615028
It's really funny stuff!!! Still haven't learned that the racist card has lost all power.
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KnifeTheSky77
Guest
I don't think it's necessarily racist to want to limit who can enter such a small piece of land like the UK, compared to the US. But who cares if it's racist, you can do whatever you want now.
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DLPB_
Guest
The Guardian is actually even funnier. They're so pissed off that they want the vote to be rerun, which should give you an idea of just what lunatics they are. Here are some of the gems:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website#comments
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website#comments
This deluded weirdo is suggesting that the EU itself veto the vote on us leaving the EU. Something that isn't even remotely possible or constitutional. But desperation of the far left is always ultra abnormal.
This poor fellow doesn't even seem to understand the point of a referendum or the fact we just had one. He "wants it back". Well, better go find Doc Brown or a Flux Capacitor.
Perhaps most hilarious of all, this deluded individual believes that an online petition should supersede a referendum held under parliamentary rules and with voting safeguards. The desperation is laughable.
Haha. Clearly a lover of democracy and people power. Referendums are held precisely BECAUSE the issue is so important. But shhhh, don't tell diabur.
What Leftism is.
Hahahaha! Yeah, because old people have not contributed to the economy all their working lives, have they? And older people aren't as wise as 18 year olds, are they? :-D
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Salk
Guest
Dan,
you know I am a great admirer and supporter of your work here so I won't discuss politics to avoid any kind of friction.
I just wanted to ask you, do you feel EU has been a wasted opportunity for Europe? What could have been done, in your opinion, to make it work better? I am genuinely sorry to see the UK go because it makes me think we are a little more distant again.
Best of luck. To us all.
you know I am a great admirer and supporter of your work here so I won't discuss politics to avoid any kind of friction.
I just wanted to ask you, do you feel EU has been a wasted opportunity for Europe? What could have been done, in your opinion, to make it work better? I am genuinely sorry to see the UK go because it makes me think we are a little more distant again.
Best of luck. To us all.
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DLPB_
Guest
Most people believe that the EU started with honourable intentions. It was originally put to the people in the 1970s and sold as a common market. The idea was that we'd be joining a union of trade. I happen to believe the population was hoodwinked and it was really all about a socialist empire of Europe all along. If they had told people their real aims from the word go, nobody would have joined it. But that's what devious politicians do when it comes to an unpopular idea - they slowly introduce it bit by bit. The slippery slope. Who would vote for a loss of sovereignty?
The young of today have grown up only knowing the EU. They don't remember when we were self governed. They see the EU like I did when I was 16 - "We're one happy family of people. We are stronger together." ( I used to be Pro EU when I was 16-20. I also wanted to join the Euro.) This would be true if the EU had been really thought out from the beginning, but it wasn't.
Take the idea of free movement of people: sounds like a great idea - but it's only a great idea in a UTOPIAN SOCIETY, which does not exist. In reality, allowing everyone in Europe to travel unrestricted to other European countries has simply been exploited by really bad people. This is because the EU is a leftist institution. It has grand ideas, but never thinks further than what it dreams society to be. The ordinary people suffer.
Another disaster has been the settlement of migrants. Again, on paper, you'd think "Aw, they are fleeing persecution and need our help." In reality, most of these "fleeing persecution" are economic migrants abusing the situation to gain entry into a better country. The vast majority are Muslims who do not share Europe's beliefs on women or homosexuals, for example. In other words, it's another policy that has been devised because of what they want it to be rather than the reality on the ground. Desire: Aren't we so liberal and tolerant and nice. Reality: Massive rise in crime and intolerance. Terrorists paradise. Massive lack of social cohesion.
Other examples of it getting in the way are tough laws against criminals. Criminals have relentlessly exploited the EU Court of Human Rights to escape justice. Desire: Protect the rights of people. Reality: Exploited by criminals and greedy lawyers.
If that wasn't bad enough, the EU is a bloated and massively bureaucratic organization. It stands to reason that so many countries governed under one authority will be harder to govern than each one looking after their own interests. The issue is that by the time they finally get around to debating terrorism or issues regarding mass migration, it's already too late. Far too late.
What I am trying to say is that the EU was always doomed to fail. Without a huge effort from the beginning to make sure that freedoms were not abused and that loopholes did not exist, it was always going to be a liberal's wet dream and end in total destruction. Even if Britain had voted remain, it would have eventually collapsed. The left and the right usually have the same goal in mind - but the left seem to be very handy at dreaming away big obstacles rather than tackling them or debating them. The arrogance of the EU is astounding. It has simply never listened, because it thinks it knows best.
The left's biggest problem is that it has crossed the finishing line before it has run the race. That arrogant twit (let's pretend that's a typo) Bob Geldof is another fool. He helped to raise millions of dollars for Africa in the hope of abolishing poverty - but he didn't use his tiny brain for one second to ask if the money would be misused. It was. A massive amount of the money generated was used to buy weapons and made a situation worse.
You see the pattern here? Crossing the finishing line without running the race. Not thinking about any of the huge problems that will arise from a good intention. This is played out on shows like Star Trek all the time - but there it's nearly always shown that good intentions lead to good outcomes. The real world does not work that way. The woolly minded left think based on feeling. They feel good giving money, therefore it is good. People like to feel good, and it leads them to do things without actually understanding a complicated situation for what it is. Bob Geldof should be nowhere near any big political decision. He is simply not intelligent enough to grasp reality. He thinks up policy based on whether it makes HIM feel good.
Finally, do you think this silly clown (protesting for a second referendum) lives in an area of high poverty, high migrants? I doubt it.
The young of today have grown up only knowing the EU. They don't remember when we were self governed. They see the EU like I did when I was 16 - "We're one happy family of people. We are stronger together." ( I used to be Pro EU when I was 16-20. I also wanted to join the Euro.) This would be true if the EU had been really thought out from the beginning, but it wasn't.
Take the idea of free movement of people: sounds like a great idea - but it's only a great idea in a UTOPIAN SOCIETY, which does not exist. In reality, allowing everyone in Europe to travel unrestricted to other European countries has simply been exploited by really bad people. This is because the EU is a leftist institution. It has grand ideas, but never thinks further than what it dreams society to be. The ordinary people suffer.
Another disaster has been the settlement of migrants. Again, on paper, you'd think "Aw, they are fleeing persecution and need our help." In reality, most of these "fleeing persecution" are economic migrants abusing the situation to gain entry into a better country. The vast majority are Muslims who do not share Europe's beliefs on women or homosexuals, for example. In other words, it's another policy that has been devised because of what they want it to be rather than the reality on the ground. Desire: Aren't we so liberal and tolerant and nice. Reality: Massive rise in crime and intolerance. Terrorists paradise. Massive lack of social cohesion.
Other examples of it getting in the way are tough laws against criminals. Criminals have relentlessly exploited the EU Court of Human Rights to escape justice. Desire: Protect the rights of people. Reality: Exploited by criminals and greedy lawyers.
If that wasn't bad enough, the EU is a bloated and massively bureaucratic organization. It stands to reason that so many countries governed under one authority will be harder to govern than each one looking after their own interests. The issue is that by the time they finally get around to debating terrorism or issues regarding mass migration, it's already too late. Far too late.
What I am trying to say is that the EU was always doomed to fail. Without a huge effort from the beginning to make sure that freedoms were not abused and that loopholes did not exist, it was always going to be a liberal's wet dream and end in total destruction. Even if Britain had voted remain, it would have eventually collapsed. The left and the right usually have the same goal in mind - but the left seem to be very handy at dreaming away big obstacles rather than tackling them or debating them. The arrogance of the EU is astounding. It has simply never listened, because it thinks it knows best.
The left's biggest problem is that it has crossed the finishing line before it has run the race. That arrogant twit (let's pretend that's a typo) Bob Geldof is another fool. He helped to raise millions of dollars for Africa in the hope of abolishing poverty - but he didn't use his tiny brain for one second to ask if the money would be misused. It was. A massive amount of the money generated was used to buy weapons and made a situation worse.
You see the pattern here? Crossing the finishing line without running the race. Not thinking about any of the huge problems that will arise from a good intention. This is played out on shows like Star Trek all the time - but there it's nearly always shown that good intentions lead to good outcomes. The real world does not work that way. The woolly minded left think based on feeling. They feel good giving money, therefore it is good. People like to feel good, and it leads them to do things without actually understanding a complicated situation for what it is. Bob Geldof should be nowhere near any big political decision. He is simply not intelligent enough to grasp reality. He thinks up policy based on whether it makes HIM feel good.
Finally, do you think this silly clown (protesting for a second referendum) lives in an area of high poverty, high migrants? I doubt it.
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DLPB_
Guest
Or to put it even simpler... if the EU was really a good thing for ordinary people, why after 40 years did the majority vote to Leave? It's had 42 years to get things right and make life better for people - and it's done the opposite. It's useless.
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Salk
Guest
I believe your arguments to be sensible, Dan.
And thanks for taking time to present them with such care.
I am not sure I'd say the left and the right have usually the same goal in mind but perhaps I misunderstood what you meant with it. I suppose you like to remind us that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A waste of resources is indeed a pain to witness.
And thanks for taking time to present them with such care.
I am not sure I'd say the left and the right have usually the same goal in mind but perhaps I misunderstood what you meant with it. I suppose you like to remind us that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A waste of resources is indeed a pain to witness.
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nfitc1
Guest
Oh, indeed. I had no delusions to the opposite. It's just that because OF THAT that the British said "enough" and voted to leave. That's not the only reason to leave, but it was the tipping point. Allowing free movement from France to Britain will allow all sorts of "legal Europeans" into the country. Oh wait, this is almost exactly what is going on between Mexico and the US except it here it's illegal.
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