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LeonhartGR
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Stick of truth did what Square should have done with their battle system long ago before releasing the new FFs... And they could still keep their awesome graphics in the game.
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DLPB_
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No they're not. But when you replace a system with another, you should make it work just as well, if not better. The systems in FF12 13 and beyond are inferior to 7s. 1- 10 had tactics... the implementation of their battle system could hve been better, but the actual systems are far more intelligent and have a much greater potential.
Having mindless slashing and numbers flying all over with no idea what is going on is lazy design.
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LeonhartGR
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Haha... that sounded so like from the mouth of an old folk (like us though)
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Covarr
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I completely agree. There are some very good action RPGs out there. But through fourteen years of turn-based Final Fantasy games, putting that name on it DID imply turn-based. They had a concept, and with each iteration they evolved and expanded upon it... until FFXI, where they began a new trend of making each new entry completely different. Making games with different combat styles is fine, but it was never in keeping with what Final Fantasy was.
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cmh175
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Agreed I was actually impressed with how they did that. Not only that but that they're releasing patches and updates taking care of gameplay issues before worrying about DLC content. Very refreshing with developers like WB Montreal no longer supporting glitches in Arkham Origins and now only focusing on dlc. Who the hell is buying dlc content for a broken game that's likely to never be fixed?
Off subject, but yeah FF and Square have been gradually adapting to western game styles more and more.
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Erdrick The Hero
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What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
There are two sides to this question for me:
SIDE A: The side that has been talked about in this thread: Why did they ruin Final Fantasy?
My first FF game was Final Fantasy for the NES. Sure, the game's almost 10 years older than I am, but my mom kept her NES and all her games around, and now they sit in my bedroom. I grew up playing, besides Mario, SE's two major franchises: Dragon Quest (originally known in the States as Dragon Warrior) and Final Fantasy. Anyways, I went from FF1 to FF7, as at the time we didn't have a SNES. (We have one nowadays, but still don't have IV/VI for it... I've got them both on the PS1 though.) Of course, being like 5 years old when I started being able to read on my own, I never finished either of them because I was an impatient child. We've got every main FF game up to 12 in some form or another now, but I have yet to finish any of them, actually. I'm working on VII now though. But I've noticed that none of the games past IX, including spinoffs, (besides Itadaki Street which I was able to import - though I got that for the Dragon Quest side mainly) are any fun for me. Besides what has already been mentioned by others, I don't really have anything to add here.
SIDE B: Why won't Square Enix release more Dragon Quest games in the US (or other non-japanese countries)? I mean, seriously! I know this forum is for FF fans, but for those here who haven't played any Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest game, you really should try one (or mulitple, or all of them) out. Dragon Quest has evolved throughout the years, yes, but it has managed to maintain storytelling and a classic JRPG feel throughout it's run. Even Dragon Quest X, which is an MMO, is fun - even fun enough to play in a language I don't understand. (Unfortunately, though I managed to play during the PC open beta, I cannot afford to pay the monthly fee to keep playing currently. And even if I had the money, I wouldn't be getting what I was paying for, you know, not being able to understand any of the story.) The only DQ game I feel (Beside X, because I can't judge it in japanese) that is lacking in story, is DQIX on the DS. It was disappointing, but I can chalk that up to being an experimental game - it was Dragon Quest's first foray into multiplayer. (Who thought that a multiplayer RPG on a handheld system would work? I guess it worked OK in japan due to the massive fanbase, but internationally I feel it was a bit of a flop.)
Also, I have to agree with Kalderasha about DQ8 being the best RPG on the PS2, but I really didn't like the "enhancements" made for the international release. Chalk that up to notalgia though. Oh, and load times.
There are two sides to this question for me:
SIDE A: The side that has been talked about in this thread: Why did they ruin Final Fantasy?
My first FF game was Final Fantasy for the NES. Sure, the game's almost 10 years older than I am, but my mom kept her NES and all her games around, and now they sit in my bedroom. I grew up playing, besides Mario, SE's two major franchises: Dragon Quest (originally known in the States as Dragon Warrior) and Final Fantasy. Anyways, I went from FF1 to FF7, as at the time we didn't have a SNES. (We have one nowadays, but still don't have IV/VI for it... I've got them both on the PS1 though.) Of course, being like 5 years old when I started being able to read on my own, I never finished either of them because I was an impatient child. We've got every main FF game up to 12 in some form or another now, but I have yet to finish any of them, actually. I'm working on VII now though. But I've noticed that none of the games past IX, including spinoffs, (besides Itadaki Street which I was able to import - though I got that for the Dragon Quest side mainly) are any fun for me. Besides what has already been mentioned by others, I don't really have anything to add here.
SIDE B: Why won't Square Enix release more Dragon Quest games in the US (or other non-japanese countries)? I mean, seriously! I know this forum is for FF fans, but for those here who haven't played any Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest game, you really should try one (or mulitple, or all of them) out. Dragon Quest has evolved throughout the years, yes, but it has managed to maintain storytelling and a classic JRPG feel throughout it's run. Even Dragon Quest X, which is an MMO, is fun - even fun enough to play in a language I don't understand. (Unfortunately, though I managed to play during the PC open beta, I cannot afford to pay the monthly fee to keep playing currently. And even if I had the money, I wouldn't be getting what I was paying for, you know, not being able to understand any of the story.) The only DQ game I feel (Beside X, because I can't judge it in japanese) that is lacking in story, is DQIX on the DS. It was disappointing, but I can chalk that up to being an experimental game - it was Dragon Quest's first foray into multiplayer. (Who thought that a multiplayer RPG on a handheld system would work? I guess it worked OK in japan due to the massive fanbase, but internationally I feel it was a bit of a flop.)
Also, I have to agree with Kalderasha about DQ8 being the best RPG on the PS2, but I really didn't like the "enhancements" made for the international release. Chalk that up to notalgia though. Oh, and load times.
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Jaki
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DLPB_
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No, that wouldn't change anything that has been said here. And the chances of the next one being good are almost 0.
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Dark Phoenix
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North American FFX had simple Sphere Grid only.
Anyway, I absolutely loathed FFX. As I said, it was the game that made me stop buying games in the series near release date. I still rank Tidus one of the most obnoxious main characters ever written for a video game.
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Tekkie.X
Guest
"This is my story, MY STORY, MY STORY"
Fuck off you annoying twunt, it's Yuna's story, you're just here for the ride 'cause yo daddy is a giant monster you floppy haired prick.
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Shard
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FFX would have been far more enjoyable if Tidus wasn't a worthless moron. It had a really good plot and the battle system was actually really good.
Him and Blitzball ruined that game. Pretty much the only reason I ever replay it is because of Auron.
Him and Blitzball ruined that game. Pretty much the only reason I ever replay it is because of Auron.
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LeonhartGR
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Thanks guys! I thought I was one of the few who thought Mr. "meh... meh... meh... I'm a dream!" was an idiot...
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genesis063
Guest
Am I the only one that sees him as ignorant? You have to understand he is brand new to that world. More or less it really was his story everything in the game was related to him. The Aeons chose him to end their sleep not Yuna. So imagine you are in Tidus's shoes in a new world of course you be excited and dumbfounded on countless occasions. He and Aaron actually had the most sense out of the bunch. Everyone else is all gun hoe about the whole sacrifice your guardian to become a new final Aeon. Tidus was the only one to question that it could be a bad idea and it was really fishy. I think people underestimate him and judge him to much. As for the father thing who doesn't have atleast some parent issues in your life at one point in time? On another note yes Aaron was pretty bad ass.
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DLPB_
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Of course it was "his story", he is the main protagonist that the player identifies with and guides. And when someone is telling a story from their own perspective, they don't say "let me tell you about my friend's story" . That's just nitpicking.
I also don't see his voice actor as any worse than what is normally in the games industry. I thought it was generally very solid for a game.
I also don't see his voice actor as any worse than what is normally in the games industry. I thought it was generally very solid for a game.
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Nightmare799
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Why so much hate? He was actually pretty pretty cool and likeable. I cant really remember him being ass to anyone ever.
People say he was a crybaby, but I would like to see anyone out of people who played this game being torn away from their world, friends, family etc. , and being thrown into different completely unknown world (or rather age) and being perfectly fine with all that.
Not only that, but the guys father was a drunkard that dissapeared when he was 10 years old (not to say Yecht was a bad person, as he deeply regretted what kind of father he was), and his mother died of anguish soon afterwards. After he finally finds his place in the zanarkand as player of zanarkand abes... *WHOOSH* Nice life you had there buddy, now it is gone.
That is a lot of bad stuff to happen to ONE person, so give the guy a break already.
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Shard
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Everyone hated Tidus because he was a whiny crybaby and also a giant moron. Yuna throws herself at him all game and he just shrugs it off. He tells every living soul in Spira he's from Zanarkand, even as much as three minutes after Rikku and Wakka keep telling him not to.
Honestly, it's the only playable character in FFX that I despised (Wakka was pretty annoying but at least he knew up from down). I would put FFX on the same level I put FF7 if the main character were anyone else.
Honestly, it's the only playable character in FFX that I despised (Wakka was pretty annoying but at least he knew up from down). I would put FFX on the same level I put FF7 if the main character were anyone else.
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gjoerulv
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Fun to see how yet another topic has strayed of.
But imo, Square's design of some the characters is a part of the problem.
Yes, all traits of Tidus is by design, of course. And it's that obvious appeal to the mainsteam that bothers me the most. Same thing with pretty much all main characters in FF8. In other words, it's not really how they are design that really gets to me, it's why they are designed that way. And if the "how" also bothers me then... yeah.
With FF13 the borders between j-pop and FF are crumbling even more.
But imo, Square's design of some the characters is a part of the problem.
Yes, all traits of Tidus is by design, of course. And it's that obvious appeal to the mainsteam that bothers me the most. Same thing with pretty much all main characters in FF8. In other words, it's not really how they are design that really gets to me, it's why they are designed that way. And if the "how" also bothers me then... yeah.
With FF13 the borders between j-pop and FF are crumbling even more.
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Covarr
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AndehPandeh
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I havent actually played FF13 due to a combination of never having bought a PS3 and having half gave up on the series apart from some spin-offs and 'side games that are sorta related' eg: Kingdom Hearts.
Honestly though I dont see why the new battle system in this game would generate so much hate; its been clear for a while Square have been targeting a more mainstream audience as opposed to the diehard JRPG fans, and a real time battle system will fill that need, but also imo gives way for a chance at much more strategic combat than turn-based would. In other words I feel that, if they play there cards right, they could actually please everyone for a change. (especially if earlier posts were right in them bringing back the staples of the series mostly lost from 10 upwards such as the world map; all things I think made the FF series what there were more so than having a turn-based battle system)
However, I *do* think they could have really perfected turn-based systems. In my opinion the slickness of X-2s battle system, even though it felt unfinished (it still annoys me how you can end up moving around the battle map when doing attacks and yet they done nothing with that feature) really shown a lot of promise for future games in the series.
In response to character design being part of the problem. I agree, actually I think that the general designs of the games has became completely blurred to the point its hard to tell one entry in the series from another; to me they all look too similar to the world aesthetic they created in X with minor differences (exception being 12 which was set in a universe they created aeons back anyways). Its honestly very off putting as I cant look at newer entries in the series as the same as VI-X where it felt like a whole new world had been designed specifically for that one game (5 downwards shared similar world designs, however I feel this is more to do with limitations on the older systems plus a fear to stray from what they'd always done, sides it was just basically medieval fantasy world but more colorful so I feel I cant complain about something 90% of other RPGs do anyways)
Finally, on Tidus, I think people are hating him for all the wrong reasons (yeah he was a bit whiny, but nowhere near as bad as most people are saying and at least for justified reasons; I bet most people would react much worse in the same situation) He does nonetheless irk me at times with the constant slip-ups bout Zanarkand, and going on bout how it was his story etc.
but on the otherhand, he felt like a real person. He was by no means the most likable FF protagonist; but I quite honestly see a LOT of love for other characters from this series that are so 2D in terms of personality, I really just cant understand why people would hate on someone who goes through pretty well written character development, irregardless of how annoying they can be at times.
(sorry for the long ass post x3)
Honestly though I dont see why the new battle system in this game would generate so much hate; its been clear for a while Square have been targeting a more mainstream audience as opposed to the diehard JRPG fans, and a real time battle system will fill that need, but also imo gives way for a chance at much more strategic combat than turn-based would. In other words I feel that, if they play there cards right, they could actually please everyone for a change. (especially if earlier posts were right in them bringing back the staples of the series mostly lost from 10 upwards such as the world map; all things I think made the FF series what there were more so than having a turn-based battle system)
However, I *do* think they could have really perfected turn-based systems. In my opinion the slickness of X-2s battle system, even though it felt unfinished (it still annoys me how you can end up moving around the battle map when doing attacks and yet they done nothing with that feature) really shown a lot of promise for future games in the series.
In response to character design being part of the problem. I agree, actually I think that the general designs of the games has became completely blurred to the point its hard to tell one entry in the series from another; to me they all look too similar to the world aesthetic they created in X with minor differences (exception being 12 which was set in a universe they created aeons back anyways). Its honestly very off putting as I cant look at newer entries in the series as the same as VI-X where it felt like a whole new world had been designed specifically for that one game (5 downwards shared similar world designs, however I feel this is more to do with limitations on the older systems plus a fear to stray from what they'd always done, sides it was just basically medieval fantasy world but more colorful so I feel I cant complain about something 90% of other RPGs do anyways)
Finally, on Tidus, I think people are hating him for all the wrong reasons (yeah he was a bit whiny, but nowhere near as bad as most people are saying and at least for justified reasons; I bet most people would react much worse in the same situation) He does nonetheless irk me at times with the constant slip-ups bout Zanarkand, and going on bout how it was his story etc.
but on the otherhand, he felt like a real person. He was by no means the most likable FF protagonist; but I quite honestly see a LOT of love for other characters from this series that are so 2D in terms of personality, I really just cant understand why people would hate on someone who goes through pretty well written character development, irregardless of how annoying they can be at times.
(sorry for the long ass post x3)
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Covarr
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The issue with FF13 isn't so much that they changed the battle system, or even that it's semi-real-time, but that it's really poorly implemented. The balance of the thing is all wrong. It wouldn't work particularly well in any other franchise either.
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