[WIP] Battle-scene Enhancement

[halkun]

I like it... This coming from the "art director" who whines about everything.

 

[sl1982]

lol

I didn't think it was possible to please halkun. Good work pyro!

 

[Millenia]

Pyrozen just unlocked an achievement:

oh and

 

[Bosola]

Still a bit too noisy, in both cases. A little blurring would work, IMO.

 

[Nightmarish]

Please tell me where that battle scene is :<
I can't remember yellowish ground :<

 

[Millenia]

oq**, inside the reactor

 

[pyrozen]

here's the grass scene with MOUNTAINS! I did the best i can ATM, im still learning the finer points of the patch tool, but man is it useful! I need to realign the upper sky with the lower, since i edited the lower portions seperately. All in time, i think it's coming along great so far.

lee

 

[dragowulf]

I think the mountains are too far.  Make them seem somewhat closer. 

As for Millenia's Oqaa, this stuck out to me:

 

[pyrozen]

sorry, i didn't really want them in the first place so the mountains stay where they are. I think it looks realistic and it maintains the "epic-ness" that armorvil was talking about. Just because the mountains on the world map seem 100ft apart, that is not a realistic repesentation of their actual distance. The original battlefield felt like you were fighting inside of the battle arena... but outside.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

The original battlefield felt like you were fighting inside of the battle arena... but outside.

There are advantages to that. Making the fields too open makes the battle feel desolate, as I said earlier; I imagine that this is a bad thing in most people's eyes. It also highlights the player's lack of freedom; having so much open space draws one's attention to the fact that there is no freedom of movement, whereas a closed space does not do this.

You may notice that there are very few outside battles without tall and noticeable mountains or hills in the background in any of the FF games from 7 onwards. In fact, there are very few wide open spaces in video games generally. This is no coincidence; having such open spaces in a limiting medium such as a video game is bad design (and also makes it look like the developers are lazy).

Furthermore, the general consensus has been that one of the most important philosophies in the recent FF7 remodeling and retexturing movement recently has been authenticity (with good reason, since it's the best compromise, it limits the ego of the artist and it encourages uniformity). Getting rid of the mountains is not being authentic to the original and is simply a case of getting rid of something that one happens to dislike personally.

 

[Nightmarish]

The grass on the ground looks perfect but i kinda feel there's no connection with the ground grass and the background grass.
It's almost like theres a cliff right after the ground grass and we're seeing a forest in a distance.  :-X

Again, my opinion on the hills is that it's good as it is now, you could make them a bit more clearer though, even if in a distance.

 

[pyrozen]

i dig it, and i dont really feel that it is the drastic departure from the original as you stated. I also dont understand how making the battlefield look like your actually IN a field makes you feel more restricted than fighting within a tiny arena. We all know you can't run around the battle scenes, its a final fantasy game. I agree with sticking to the original materials, but when they can easily be improved upon, it would be a mistake to not take advantage of that.

Sorry kudisto, though i do value your opinion, we'll have to agree to disagree this.
 
Also, a transistion is in the works for the foregound/background mismatch. I'll do what i can, but there isn't really much room to fade the 2 together. Your going from a horizontal ground immedietly to a false backdrop. Think looney tunes when they hold up the fake tunnel and wile runs into it. That is basically how the background is structured.
 
also, in the picture you are looking up a hill, which amplifies the "cliff" that you are talking about, because it basically IS a cliff from that perspective. These scens need to be good, but most of the small flaws cannot be corrected unless we remodel the entire scenes...which i intend to do once i give a bunch of them the once-over graphic treatment.

lee

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Sorry kudisto, though i do value your opinion

No you don't. Nor do you respect the opinion of the game's creators. Or the opinion of every game designer in history, nearly all of whom know that desolate backgrounds in a game look really, really awful. I hope you won't mind if I shoop some hills into the background. I also hope there's nothing else in the game that you didn't like and see the opportunity to rectify; we can expect to see that change as well.

 

[pyrozen]

Or the opinion of every game designer in history, nearly all of whom know that desolate backgrounds in a game look really, really awful.

i would like to see a source on this quote. Just because i don't kneel to your wishes does not mean i disregard where you are coming from. And i dont appreciate you attacking me as if i am somehow "destroying" final fantasy 7. I love this game as much as the rest of you, see the WMRP and the hours i poured into it for reference. Feel free to modify the background to your liking, i have no problem with that.

 

[sl1982]

Sorry kudisto, though i do value your opinion

No you don't. Nor do you respect the opinion of the game's creators. Or the opinion of every game designer in history, nearly all of whom know that desolate backgrounds in a game look really, really awful. I hope you won't mind if I shoop some hills into the background. I also hope there's nothing else in the game that you didn't like and see the opportunity to rectify; we can expect to see that change as well.

No need to be rude about it. He has every right to change the scene as he sees fit. Just as you have every right to not use it if you do not agree with the way he chose to redo it.

 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Or the opinion of every game designer in history, nearly all of whom know that desolate backgrounds in a game look really, really awful.

i would like to see a source on this quote.

My source is just about every game that has ever been made. As I said, there's a good reason why you never see backgrounds without some noticeable interesting features in there. How often do you see a background in a FF from 7 onwards with just grass and sky? I don't remember many. They all have big mountains or hills or cliffs or forests. Without interesting features in the background, you may as well have no background at all. But you obviously know better than I do and better than the game's designers, so meh :|

 

[Timu Sumisu]

phew, do i smell flames? jeez kool it guys. to try and tone things down to less aggressive comments and more even remarks. Kudi's points about design arnt so much from a concious point of view of "i like it like this or that". The basic precepts of design have to do with the subconcious observation of art. we as developpers/modders can argue back n forth about mountains or peices of interest closer or further and personal taste about it, but the real reason is that depending how you design a scene in this case, its what effect it'll have on yer brain . when playing a game casually, (/not critically/) you'll be lookin at commands, stats, quick fast paced animations, and bam the fights over. however, the ratios of crap in your scene will affect your immersion. big things in the background will make you feel like yer closer to something significant, getting closer etc, whilst something distant will invariably give your subconcious a feeling of being in the middle of nowhere, despite its being more realistic.

/wall of text

Point being, I think kudi's points need a bit more analysis and explanation to their validity. Ultimately, if you dont want to make larger points of interest in the backgrounds to yer scenes... then don't!

 

[Mike.S.N_310-X]

may I ask this, how to create new battle with new battle scene(not replace old battle scene, just add new) . I want to make some boss battles

 

[Nightmarish]

Just as you have every right to not use it if you do not agree with the way he chose to redo it.

Exactly, no one is forced to use pyrozen scene.

 

[Millenia]

less talk more work, sheesh