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Yes, but my point was that it doesn't matter. When I played FF7 the first time round I didn't know about language barriers and translations. I enjoyed the game for a) what it was and b) how I interpreted it.

Mainly because the style left a lot to interpretation, as far as I am concerned.

My really big point is that I now feel like I am defending my opinion or my interpretation, surely you can see a problem with that.
 
this is my thoughts about ff7 remake. keep in mind the video was recorded before before E3 i still stand by this while the remake is happening
 
"But because this is a new generation of technology (...) that alone brings changes from a design point of view."
So he's basically saying that modern technology implies per se realism and modern gameplay ? Like, that is the technology being more advanced now that forces you to make the game like that ?
If they put away the original style, I fear for the spirit of the game.
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Don't be silly. That only means you don't display a scene in 3D the same way you display it in 2D.

ultima espio's quote seems perfectly reasonable to me. It all goes back to the fact that you just don't trust SE anymore. I'm not saying you're right or wrong but that's definitely a wrong thing to fear every one of SE's communiqués and read them with a negative bias.

Just wait the damn game. We don't have enough informations on this remake to have a proper opinion about what it'll look like.
 
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My really big point is that I now feel like I am defending my opinion or my interpretation, surely you can see a problem with that.
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No more than I am defending the portrayal of the scene, the original text, and MY opinion.  If two people differ, then they both have to be defending their position.  I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

Just wait the damn game. We don't have enough informations on this remake to have a proper opinion about what it'll look like.
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Actually, we do.  We have the trailer, interviews, past experience, knowledge of how games get remade, and the current trend of Square Enix and their prequel / sequel cash ins (and the style they took).  So far, things don't look so good. This thread is here to debate, good or bad.   Why is it that negative opinions on something are always something to be stamped out, but positive opinions are to be embraced, despite any current or prior evidence against such opinions?  What makes one more worthy than the other?
 
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Don't be silly. That only means you don't display a scene in 3D the same way you display it in 2D.
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Well okay, didn't understand it that way, but okay.

It all goes back to the fact that you just don't trust SE anymore.
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In my case, that's not a question of trust or not. SE's way of remaking the game may end up going against what I think is the spirit of FF VII, but then I won't be saying that SE is not trustworthy of my personal feel of what makes the spirit of FF VII.

that's definitely a wrong thing to fear every one of SE's communiqués and read them with a negative bias.
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FF VII exists and we love it, each one of us for his own reasons, so it is impossible to have no bias in the matter. But as I said in my first post in this thread, I have no expectations, and that is not negativity or lack of trust, it's just that I think that FF VII cannot be remade without becoming something else than FF VII, so I'm not going to compare it to 98/97 FF VII. It'll just be another kind of FF VII, and of course I'll prefer 98/97 FF VII, but the remake may end up being a good game in its own kind.
But I think that having expectations inspired by the original game and comparing it to the remake would only lead to depreciating the remake once it is played, even if it turns out to be a decent game, and that would be a pitty.
 
I'm still not getting the hate.
No game will ever be the original FF7.  Because it is literally impossible for any other game to have the exact same dialogue, characters, and art style without it being the original.  What SE is doing is remaking (see re-imagining) the original.  For everyone already complaining about it before we know anything, you're not going to like it.  Not because it won't be a good game, but because it won't be frame for frame and line for line the same as the 1997 one.  There is literally nothing they can put out that will make you happy.

It's basically the same reason DLPB's Beacause retranslation gets hate.  It's not EXACTLY what we played a decade ago so it's terrible and blasphemous.  Thing is, REimaginings and REtranslations aren't horrible if you approach them with an open mind and see them as a chance to revisit old friends.  Will it be exactly like what you played a decade ago?  Nope.  What would the point of that be if not a lazy cash grab.  But that also doesn't mean it can't be good in its own right.  Sort of like the whole compilation.  By no means am I praising it, because at least one of the games seems to me to be a ridiculous cash grab, but by not expecting the same old FF7 with a new bow on it allows them to be enjoyable..... Like i said about catching up with friends you haven't seen in years, you can't expect the relationship to not have changed.  It's been over 15 years.  You've changed. They've changed.  The dynamic is going to be different, but that doesn't mean you have to hate them or be upset that they aren't the same person they were a decade ago.  They're going to be a little different, and that's ok.

If you could only buy and play one: A remake with only updated backgrounds and models OR whatever the current remake becomes, I think you'd be a fool to choose the former.  We've already played it.  Some of us dozens of times.  Why on earth would you pay for the same game you already own?
 
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I'm still not getting the hate.
No game will ever be the original FF7.  Because it is literally impossible for any other game to have the exact same dialogue, characters, and art style without it being the original.  What SE is doing is remaking (see re-imagining) the original.  For everyone already complaining about it before we know anything, you're not going to like it.  Not because it won't be a good game, but because it won't be frame for frame and line for line the same as the 1997 one.  There is literally nothing they can put out that will make you happy.

It's basically the same reason DLPB's Beacause retranslation gets hate.  It's not EXACTLY what we played a decade ago so it's terrible and blasphemous.  Thing is, REimaginings and REtranslations aren't horrible if you approach them with an open mind and see them as a chance to revisit old friends.  Will it be exactly like what you played a decade ago?  Nope.  What would the point of that be if not a lazy cash grab.  But that also doesn't mean it can't be good in its own right.  Sort of like the whole compilation.  By no means am I praising it, because at least one of the games seems to me to be a ridiculous cash grab, but by not expecting the same old FF7 with a new bow on it allows them to be enjoyable..... Like i said about catching up with friends you haven't seen in years, you can't expect the relationship to not have changed.  It's been over 15 years.  You've changed. They've changed.  The dynamic is going to be different, but that doesn't mean you have to hate them or be upset that they aren't the same person they were a decade ago.  They're going to be a little different, and that's ok.

If you could only buy and play one: A remake with only updated backgrounds and models OR whatever the current remake becomes, I think you'd be a fool to choose the former.  We've already played it.  Some of us dozens of times.  Why on earth would you pay for the same game you already own? 
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I feel very much the same way. I remain very curious about how they're going to handle all the various aspects of the remake. There's also much which can be expanded on.
Think of the possibilities!!!
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I'm pessimistic about the remake because the Nomura - Kitase - Nojima triumvirate has been pushing out what for me is edgy teen pop trash for the last 10 - 15 years. I'd be more than happy to play a complete re-imagining of FF7, but from what I've seen from these people over the last decade I doubt I'll be able to overcome my visceral hatred for the airbrushed Maybelline bullet time brigade.
 
Sorry, I am not a mind-reader - and seeing as SE has been primarily a publishing company for quite some time now, I took "from" to mean "from SE" not "developed in-house in SE" - and seeing as how there is no real distinction a lot of the time, since many teams are made up of contractors to begin with, it doesn't really make sense to draw a line in the sand like that.

There are already rumors going on that this game is primarily being developed by third-party contractors (which would make sense when SE already has so many titles on its plate).
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I didn't expect you to read my mind sir (but the post I made about AAA companies may been a bit vague and open for interpretation). We may simply have a different natural reaction on the word "from" in the given context... Or maybe I'm too lazy in my wording. :P In my defence though -and as a correction- I did use the word "create" which imo relates better to the creative process (development) than publishing rights, or whatever you imagine when you conjecture the word "from". I was not trying to make fun of you or anything by the "lol" and whatnot in the latter post, sorry about that.

And, yes, any big company will always have contractors/third party and/or new blood on any project (most projects at least). I used to work for Cisco as a contractor; I know a bit about this. Even though there always were some contractors on every project, the end products -at the time- were always considered in-house developed Cisco products. Do you mean "in-house development" and "third party developed" are such blurred terms that it is debatable whether they should even be distinguished? Just curious, not trying to put you on the spot or anything. The way I see it is that there usually is a clear distinction on who have the creative input vs publishing rights, even if the parties are mixed. With exceptions of course. There probably have been "internal" disputes on who the publishers are and who the developers are.</offtopicish>

I'm still not getting the hate...
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I don't if you refer to people like me... :O Pretty much everything said in ultima espio's quote presupposes a mass-appeal minded, realism themed, matrix-esqued FF7R. Which fits the evidence so far. If that also turnes out to be true, then I, most likely, will not like it. Which is based on the recent stuff SE has made, the direction/trend they seem to follow and the evidence of the remake we currently have. I try to strip my expectations (to anything fictional), but in the case of FFs and SE it's kinda hard to do that without giving them the benefit of the doubt. Everything of the above may still be true at release, and I may still like it. I have not decided that I will not like it even though to some I seem to be on the hate-train with no going off. What I'm guessing as of now however, is that I will not like it. Based on the evidence. The reason I voice it is not to spread hate but in an poor attempt to make similar minded people to not automatically buy into this. Hate =/= not liking in my book. What I find a bit troubling however, is this presupposition I mentioned above that have snuck in, seemingly unintentionally everywhere.

Now, as I said before, I understand why SE would do a remake in this manner. As a company they have to survey the marked to conclude what kind of product would be most profitable for them. It's a company mentality not a personal mentality. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty of people in SE who loves what they do, and work with passion.

If FF7 was ever to be remade, and still get a huge coin from the original fans, they are running out of time. In that regard making it now makes sense.

On the topic of "staying true to the FF7 spirit" vs "FF7 rebooted", I would actually love to see a more R-rated-ish rebooted FF7 (no, I don't mean porn). With mature themes, hard decisions and whatnot. Hell, GoT is wildly profitable right now, can't SE get inspired by that? I would love SE to at least make a FF spin off title aimed for us that are tired of PG 13 FFs.
 
Pretty much everything said in ultima espio's quote presupposes a mass-appeal minded, realism themed, matrix-esqued FF7R. Which fits the evidence so far. If that also turns out to be true, then I, most likely, will not like it.
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That's precisely it.  I would prefer no remake to one that just rides roughshod over the original because, to me, that's a real waste of potential.  It will also be the game that a new generation identify with as FF7, which is even more sad.  I think it's clear that most people against this remake DO want an updated translation and updated graphics - but they also want something that's as intelligent as the original and respects the fanbase.  So far, all signs point to this not being so.  I don't think people like myself and gj can be considered "haters" or bigots, given we have both finished projects that address some big faults with the original game (translation , difficulty) but... that's just the point isn't it?

Those things needed fixing.  They needed updating.

FF7 does not need matrix effects, endless cutscenes, graphic fests, dumbed down battle system, teeny angst, or anything else Square is delivering these days.

In other words, what the pessimists like myself want is a game that ADDS to what was already there, not deducts or completely changes the original.  And they're already saying that's exactly what they're going to do.  What's to feel happy about?  Why bother remaking a game if it is going to have less quality and variety, and more bloat?  Does anyone here believe this is being driven by anything other than money?  I know all game companies are big business, but the modern Square is the type we don't need and don't like and don't want - FAT CAT BUSINESS.  Imho they simply aren't capable of remaking FF7 to any decent standard anymore, and there will be no soul because they lost theirs a long time ago.

Anyway, I think I'm going round in circles now, so I'll bookmark this and pop back when the disaster is on our shelves.   :)
 
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I'm a bit worried myself, but mostly excited. Final Fantasy has been touch and go for awhile, but Square does do awesome work (been playing Sleeping Dogs Definitive edition). I think it'll be a bit different, but possibly more exciting (fmv's are certainly more entertaining than comic book bubble dialogue). In the end I think it'll be a satisfying game. It's their best game and series, and ultimately their legacy. I'm sure they'll find a good balance between the original game and FFXV/KH game mechanics. Otherwise the game will sell well....like retire and buy a whole country well, but no one will likely ever buy another Square game again. There's a lot riding on this for them.
 
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Those things needed fixing.  They needed updating.
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But who gets to decide what needs fixing?  Maybe part of the appeal is that it's easy to run through and you don't have to grind and grind to progress with the story.   Maybe the story with all of it's quirks and ill-translated names gives it a certain charm and allows the player to better enjoy it than if it had been perfectly translated.
I personally feel that the turn based battles in FF7 are way outdated.  I've seen newer games tackle battles with an updated turn based mentality that works well, but is that something that NEEDS to be updated?

"Expect the worst, hope for the best" was my motto for many years.  It helps avoid disappointment when things don't go your way.  I think it's perfect for all those people already worried the remake will step all over the original.  If you're expecting it to be terrible, try instead to be apathetic about it.  It doesn't affect you and there's literally nothing you can do to change how SE makes the game.  But you shouldn't be upset by it or dreading the release date.

That last paragraph is kind of ass, but basically, who cares if it ends up being terrible?  Just don't buy it.   Like countless people here I have spent an exorbitantly large amount of time playing and modding the game, it's basically been a part of my life since I was 15.  If I hate the remake, oh well, it will be forgotten and I'll promptly move on with my life.  But if it's good, well then hell that will be awesome.
 
The person who decides is ultimately the director - and he should know the basics of game design.  Everything I get from the current crop at Square is that they don't, but they aren't held to account because of the brand.  It's not too hard to see what was wrong with the original:

1. Models are lego, graphics are pixellated because of low resolution. The pre-rendered setup is fine.
2. FMV have same problem
3. Difficulty is far too easy (probably needs a choice between hard / easy at game start)
4. Ties in with 3. The implementation of the materia system and battle system is poor.  The design is fine.
5. Localization into English is poor
6. Cait Sith (well, he's here to stay, sadly haha)
7. Some minigames (like Submarine) are unfinished
8. Game could have had more minigames at Gold Saucer

If those things were fixed and updated, the game would still retain everything that made it great and, at the same time, ADD to what was there originally.  But such a task would take a competent director and writing staff, a company that cared, and much more time and money than they are willing to spend.  Nearly all the budget will go into bloated CGI, high resolution 3D environments, and voice acting.  None of which made the original what it was.  If FF7 had SNES graphics with everything else intact, it would still be hailed a masterpiece.

In other words, I never wanted a remake to address the graphics in this way.  That misses the point entirely about where most effort was needed.  All the graphics needed was an update based on the original feel.  The interviews so far (and sadly the prevailing mindset elsewhere) is that a remake was only necessary to shove the power of the next gen graphics in our face.  That entire train of thought is the worst way to start a remake project.  That mindset misses the point entirely.  But perhaps not from a money-making side of things.  I can already see the 40/40 and 10/10 reviews by big gaming magazines simply because the remake has 1080p CGI environments.  Who gives a crap about anything else?
 
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The person who decides is ultimately the director - and he should know the basics of game design.  Everything I get from the current crop at Square is that they don't, but they aren't held to account because of the brand.  It's not too hard to see what was wrong with the original:

1. Models are lego, graphics are pixellated because of low resolution. The pre-rendered setup is fine.
2. FMV have same problem
3. Difficulty is far too easy (probably needs a choice between hard / easy at game start)
4. Ties in with 3. The implementation of the materia system and battle system is poor.  The design is fine.
5. Localization into English is poor
6. Cait Sith (well, he's here to stay, sadly haha)
7. Some minigames (like Submarine) are unfinished
8. Game could have had more minigames at Gold Saucer

If those things were fixed and updated, the game would still retain everything that made it great and, at the same time, ADD to what was there originally.  But such a task would take a competent director and writing staff, a company that cared, and much more time and money than they are willing to spend.
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If fixing these points were the way to your ideal vision of a remake, then things can't be looking too bad because the contributions of the modding community (including your own) are precisely doing that job! Item #1 would be fixed using Kaldarasha's models and yarLson's fields, Item #2 may need more video-editing work (if you go with an approach with upscaling and filtering each frame, it'd be tedious but still manageable), Item #3 and #4: there are difficulty patches (not to mention that if you push the config sliders to the maximum battle speed in "Active" mode, it'd make the game a little harder) which you must know better than I, Item#5 is actually your very own project, Item #6 is a long-term project you intended to carry out, only Item #7 and Item #8 would be a little more difficult to implement (not sure if anybody has been working much on the submarine game). So in the end we'll have Square's remake on the one hand, however it turns out, with certainly a different direction than what you propose, and on the other end we could also choose to play the original with the appropriate collection of mods which will make it faithful to your ideal vision. Is there a harm that they'll be different? If people recognize that your vision is superior (and that graphics do not matter that much), then they too will play the modded version of the original and be content with it, and they will leave Square's remake aside. I'm actually not sure there would be a point for Square to simply make the same modifications to the game as the modding community would (and certainly it wouldn't cost them that much money, if you cut down the budget for the graphic update).
 
You're right that some of those are being addressed and fixed, but a full remake of the engine is unlikely to happen, along with 720p graphic updates to all pre-rendered fields (that will never happen).  In short, our changes can only go so far - we do not have at our disposal near unlimited funds and talent.  A full remake could do what we have done and much more with the right people in charge.  So I'm afraid we just have to go back to my list and my previous posts.

Ultimately any changes we do make will only be seen by a fraction of people and will never be official.  If the majority of gamers knew of us and saw our version, I am confident it would hold up well.  But you cannot compete with a console and an entire company.
 
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A full remake could do what we have done and much more with the right people in charge.
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For curiosity's sake, who in your opinion would have been the right people for taking the lead of this project? Sakagushi?
 
For curiosity's sake, who in your opinion would have been the right people for taking the lead of this project? Sakagushi?
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I have absolutely no idea.  Sakaguchi isn't without faults, but I'd feel much happier if he were at the helm.  I don't know enough about the FF team as individuals to say who is the best suited to doing the job right.  People who know them better, like Luksy, may be able to give you a better answer.

I wish I was the director.   :-D
 
It almost feels like the best PR move Square could possibly pull off would be to "hire" Sakagushi so that his name would be on the directors list. I'm not sure there's so much "bad blood" between him and Square (after all, he still seems to be talking to Kitase regularly), but would he be interested in getting involved in this?
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It wouldn't hurt at least...

When it comes to Sakaguchi, imo, he haven't done anything truly great since FF9. Lost Odyssey (best things about LO are the short stories and the music) and Last Story have their charm, but lacks the little extra that made his previous works with the FFs truly great. imo.

Even when it comes to the FF series -amazing as the man is- he tends to be over credited by fanboys. FF1 is kinda his child. 2 - 5 he had a lot of creative influence over. On 6 and 7 he was "only" a producer (if I'm not mistaken), which is very important to the final product, but not as much as being both director and writer. On 8, 10 and 11 he was "merely" an executive producer, whatever that means. In any case he wasn't very involved with those games. On 9 he is credited as producer and scenario. Basically 1 - 7 and 9 are the games he had influence over directly.

In regards to the fan remake vs SE remake: It a good thing SE makes a new FF7. It won't interrupt the potential fan "remakes" of the original. A "true fan remake", in other words, will never be in vain.
 
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