C
Captain Epic
Guest
Wow, this looks incredible! 
Keep up the great work.
Keep up the great work.
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L
LeonhartGR
Guest
So close to how I imagined what it should look like!!! :mrgreen:
I wish more scenes were so detailed!
I wish more scenes were so detailed!
B
BloodShot
Guest
Absolutely gorgeous. I can't wait to see it ingame.
K
Killerx20
Guest
Thats really awesome looking, high quality, highly detailed stuff you have there. And the renderer's lighting is superb. I only wish I could render Midgar to look that good.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Hey folks,
Thank you very much for your comments, I'm glad you like that scene. I've yet a couple of things to tweak before I can try to get it in the game.
By the way, I'm having a weird problem, I hope someone can help me with that: I wanted to play the game so that I would get a save file close to that sewer scene. However, for some reason the wall market quest doesn't start and the game is just stuck there. More specifically: when first going to Don Corneo's mansion, and triggering the dialogue with the bouncer, Aerith doesn't appear and there's never the starting dialogue about cross-dressing. Is there any way to solve that problem? I tried to restart the game from earlier save files but the quest repeatedly fails to initiate.
Thanks.
For reference: I'm with the 2012 PC version, converted to old using Kranmers' game converter v0.9, and downloaded Aali's driver v0.7.11b.
Thank you very much for your comments, I'm glad you like that scene. I've yet a couple of things to tweak before I can try to get it in the game.
By the way, I'm having a weird problem, I hope someone can help me with that: I wanted to play the game so that I would get a save file close to that sewer scene. However, for some reason the wall market quest doesn't start and the game is just stuck there. More specifically: when first going to Don Corneo's mansion, and triggering the dialogue with the bouncer, Aerith doesn't appear and there's never the starting dialogue about cross-dressing. Is there any way to solve that problem? I tried to restart the game from earlier save files but the quest repeatedly fails to initiate.
Thanks.
For reference: I'm with the 2012 PC version, converted to old using Kranmers' game converter v0.9, and downloaded Aali's driver v0.7.11b.
K
Kaldarasha
Guest
You need to talk to the old fat guy in front of the honeybee to start the quest.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Really? :-[ I simply forgot to do it, how did I miss that? Shame on me for blundering that badly, that was quite the derp moment.
And thank you for the tip, which was unfortunately needed.
C
cmh175
Guest
Here's the game save compilation. Has more or less every single event bookmarked, it's great for testing stuff like this. You'll need to use the readme to figure out which save and file to use though, the saves are in Spanish I think.
https://www.ff7catalog.com/posts/91260/
https://www.ff7catalog.com/posts/91260/
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Hi folks,
After quite a bit of tinkering, I got that field layered, animated, reloaded into Palmer. I uploaded it in the WIP repo, given that they were made with temporary lighting setup (one that gives me a decent picture after a few dozens of samples). The final version with real lighting will take ages to render, so it will be delivered in approximately 2 weeks (because I have to render each frame of the sewage flow). In the meantime, you're more than welcome to give it a try. It comes in 3 .png files that can be found under /Field Scenes/colne_b3/.
For people who don't have access to the repo, I've uploaded a 50% size version open to everyone, if there are other people willing to try it out.
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/5070/vqum.png has to be renamed colne_b3_00_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img401/6245/9gf5.png has to be renamed colne_b3_01_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/9288/8cbh.png has to be renamed colne_b3_02_00.
These images simply need to be placed in /mods/<modpath>/field/colne_b3/ within your Final Fantasy VII directory.
Some side comments about getting that field to work: for that scene, it was not really straightforward. The big problem here is the absence of control on the overlaying process. Each layer is cut in a pre-established manner, so if there is something you want to overlay but falls outside the boundaries of how the layers are cut, then it cannot be done (unless somebody has a solution for it?). For example, if you compare the image below (50% render size) with what I previously rendered (see page 1 of this thread), I eventually had to mask the outflow of the sewage (bottom right corner of the image) because otherwise this section gets badly cut out. I also wanted to place a wooden plank across the bottom of the canal to "show" the end of the walkmesh (which I did eventually), however my first attempt were about placing that plank slightly more upstream and place it in a layer lying "above" the character. However, the "upper layers" were automatically cut out in such a way that the plank wasn't displayed. So I finally had to place the plank so that it wouldn't look like Cloud would step over it. I also had problems with the layering of the stairs, and it also turned out that the last two steps to the bottom could not be placed in an appropriate layer. I simply left those steps only in the bottom layers. I guess the way it's set up now is pretty much the best that could be done.
Another note I'd have is about the animation. As it is, there are 8 frames to play the animation of the flowing sewage. It takes about 1.2 seconds for the animation to loop. In my Blender fluid sim, I have 25 fps. Consequently, I chose to build the 8 frames animation by picking 1 Blender frame out of 4. It may be a bit "choppy" (as was the original game), but I think it "loops" better when returning to the first frame of the animation. Something I was wondering: would there be a way to expand the number of frames for such animation? It may be way outside what Palmer can do, but would it be possible at all? At this point, that last question is rather a matter of curiosity. In the same trend, I wonder if there's a way to modify how the overlays are cut out (with respect to my problems to arrange all the layers).
Anyway, I'd be happy if some people could try this WIP and give me some feedback
After quite a bit of tinkering, I got that field layered, animated, reloaded into Palmer. I uploaded it in the WIP repo, given that they were made with temporary lighting setup (one that gives me a decent picture after a few dozens of samples). The final version with real lighting will take ages to render, so it will be delivered in approximately 2 weeks (because I have to render each frame of the sewage flow). In the meantime, you're more than welcome to give it a try. It comes in 3 .png files that can be found under /Field Scenes/colne_b3/.
For people who don't have access to the repo, I've uploaded a 50% size version open to everyone, if there are other people willing to try it out.
http://imageshack.us/a/img818/5070/vqum.png has to be renamed colne_b3_00_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img401/6245/9gf5.png has to be renamed colne_b3_01_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/9288/8cbh.png has to be renamed colne_b3_02_00.
These images simply need to be placed in /mods/<modpath>/field/colne_b3/ within your Final Fantasy VII directory.
Some side comments about getting that field to work: for that scene, it was not really straightforward. The big problem here is the absence of control on the overlaying process. Each layer is cut in a pre-established manner, so if there is something you want to overlay but falls outside the boundaries of how the layers are cut, then it cannot be done (unless somebody has a solution for it?). For example, if you compare the image below (50% render size) with what I previously rendered (see page 1 of this thread), I eventually had to mask the outflow of the sewage (bottom right corner of the image) because otherwise this section gets badly cut out. I also wanted to place a wooden plank across the bottom of the canal to "show" the end of the walkmesh (which I did eventually), however my first attempt were about placing that plank slightly more upstream and place it in a layer lying "above" the character. However, the "upper layers" were automatically cut out in such a way that the plank wasn't displayed. So I finally had to place the plank so that it wouldn't look like Cloud would step over it. I also had problems with the layering of the stairs, and it also turned out that the last two steps to the bottom could not be placed in an appropriate layer. I simply left those steps only in the bottom layers. I guess the way it's set up now is pretty much the best that could be done.
Another note I'd have is about the animation. As it is, there are 8 frames to play the animation of the flowing sewage. It takes about 1.2 seconds for the animation to loop. In my Blender fluid sim, I have 25 fps. Consequently, I chose to build the 8 frames animation by picking 1 Blender frame out of 4. It may be a bit "choppy" (as was the original game), but I think it "loops" better when returning to the first frame of the animation. Something I was wondering: would there be a way to expand the number of frames for such animation? It may be way outside what Palmer can do, but would it be possible at all? At this point, that last question is rather a matter of curiosity. In the same trend, I wonder if there's a way to modify how the overlays are cut out (with respect to my problems to arrange all the layers).
Anyway, I'd be happy if some people could try this WIP and give me some feedback
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A
anaho
Guest
1.) Looks good. Ingame layers work and animation is good. I saw no glitches whatsoever.
Edit: After seeing it ingame it is probably the easiest way to just rerender it at higher settings and leave the work to the computer.
(2.) Obsoloete : Why not render the water flow seperately in Internal and just comp it together? I dont think it is worth rendering a real animation of that anyway given the choppy nature of embedded frames in game. I mean I am all for quality but what you try to do seems just not worth the time and energy ( and to think you would have to do this again in case you have to alter something ....))
3.) I dont know how long this took you to render but the "noise-free" renders from Mideel took me 15 minutes and 45minutes in 4x4 resolution on my computer for a single frame with no layers. Doing them on a 2600k would probably have taken 8 times as long. But they were not really optimised for speed anyway.
4.) IF you decide to do the water in internal, you no seem to no longer have any transparent object in the scene. You can then set transmission and transparency bounces to 0 to begin with. And set the min and max bounes to the same value like 2 and see what happens.
5.) How is this scene lit? I guess it is just two lights. But did you stick them inside the lamp objects? If so, that is likely to be a sure contributor to noise.
Edit: After seeing it ingame it is probably the easiest way to just rerender it at higher settings and leave the work to the computer.
(2.) Obsoloete : Why not render the water flow seperately in Internal and just comp it together? I dont think it is worth rendering a real animation of that anyway given the choppy nature of embedded frames in game. I mean I am all for quality but what you try to do seems just not worth the time and energy ( and to think you would have to do this again in case you have to alter something ....))
3.) I dont know how long this took you to render but the "noise-free" renders from Mideel took me 15 minutes and 45minutes in 4x4 resolution on my computer for a single frame with no layers. Doing them on a 2600k would probably have taken 8 times as long. But they were not really optimised for speed anyway.
4.) IF you decide to do the water in internal, you no seem to no longer have any transparent object in the scene. You can then set transmission and transparency bounces to 0 to begin with. And set the min and max bounes to the same value like 2 and see what happens.
5.) How is this scene lit? I guess it is just two lights. But did you stick them inside the lamp objects? If so, that is likely to be a sure contributor to noise.
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M
Mayo Master
Guest
1. When I was working on getting the layers right with Palmer and testing them in game, I was using 5x5 resolution renders (When you tried these files, did you try those from the repo or those open to everyone?). It still needed quite a bit of tayloring with gimp to cut them out properly and have them not glitch, because of the cuts you have no control over.
2. I mean to render the flow with Cycles. I am pretty happy with how I managed to set up the foamy mud flow material, I don't think I can replicate that with Blender's internal, and I don't feel like discarding that.
3. How many samples did you need for a noise-free image on 4x4 resolution?
4 and 5. I tried to launch a render last night using "real lights" but the picture was remaining fairly noisy after 5000 samples. As you guessed, the light sources where stuck inside the lamp objects, which themselves had "glass" surfaces to let the light out. And as you guess, this setup cannot work with a reasonable amount of samples. I switched back to a setup where the light source is the "glass surfaces" of the lamp objects, and it reduced noise drastically (I made tests where the picture was already decently sharp only after 10 samples), so I think I should be good with that later setup. I have a bit of tweaking to do but hopefully I should start the proper renders tonight.
Overall I won't mind if the renders take 10-20 hours each or so, I'll just let the computer to work overnight.
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anaho
Guest
1.) I was testing the 640 version posted above. Granted, the resolution is not the best to judge and I play the game from 2 meters away from my CRT monitor (not TV), so maybe I should check again the high res version.
2.) I can understand that as it looks great the way it is.
3.) You must know this is dependant on your scene and especially your lighting setup and cannot be generalised. Materials also come into play but I am 99% sure that they wont be a problem in your scene as everything seems more or less noisy to same amount of degree. But Itmin 2 resulted took 750 samples to converge. Itmin 1 lighting was worse and it took 1000 samples and I had to render at twice the res to get rid of persisting noise. This helps if you have bad lighting it it never converges. Render twice res and scale down. But to give a number, most people would argue that even 1000 is overkill and should already be very smooth. 5000 is just killing it - especially for animation.
4.) How many samples did the version posted above version have ? If it is in double digits range then I guess you have optimised it reasonably well.
2.) I can understand that as it looks great the way it is.
3.) You must know this is dependant on your scene and especially your lighting setup and cannot be generalised. Materials also come into play but I am 99% sure that they wont be a problem in your scene as everything seems more or less noisy to same amount of degree. But Itmin 2 resulted took 750 samples to converge. Itmin 1 lighting was worse and it took 1000 samples and I had to render at twice the res to get rid of persisting noise. This helps if you have bad lighting it it never converges. Render twice res and scale down. But to give a number, most people would argue that even 1000 is overkill and should already be very smooth. 5000 is just killing it - especially for animation.
4.) How many samples did the version posted above version have ? If it is in double digits range then I guess you have optimised it reasonably well.
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A
Aali
Guest
It's certainly possible to change up all of the tiling, animations and what-have-you and it would even be possible to create an automatic tool that spits out a suitable set of tiles from a render, its depth buffer and a walkmesh. It is a huge undertaking though and in the end all you get is a tool that modifies a horribly outdated format designed for the PSX and shoe-horned into 90's PCs. It's probably easier to change how the game renders field scenes.
A
anaho
Guest
I would remove that red can in the lower left because it totally looks like a red materia if you dont zoom in.
But the layers work perfectly even in the hires version.
But the layers work perfectly even in the hires version.
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M
Mayo Master
Guest
In the above version, the big "fill" light makes it very easy to have a noise-free image. It took only 50 samples, so I suppose it's doing pretty good. With dimmer light (as in the final version) I'll really need to ramp up the number of samples.
Thanks for the info. I'm guessing it would be too much pain to go through such an endeavor given the benefits we would get from it. Anyway, it will take us so long to make all the scenes that maybe somebody will show up with an alternate game engine that could handle these fields as 3d environments
I didn't think that could be a bother. I'll keep the can, just change the color of its side.
By the way, for the sense of scale of the items in a scene, I recommend the use of Kaldarasha's unshaded models. It's of a greater help than chibis in my opinion.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
While the "real" renders of colne_b3 are being made, I started to work on the other sewer scene. It was a bit difficult to get the camera right (it's one of the few exceptions where SpooX's script doesn't work that well) but I eventually got it (did a bit of match photo with Google Sketchup). I only just started the modelling.
Funny, it's kind of "Back to where it all began" since it's the same scene I tried to model with Sketchup one year ago, as my earliest attempt to contribute.
By the way, I intend to reuse the texture I made for the previous scene. Not only it will make both environments consistent (which is actually not the case of the original images), but that should also speed up my work.
Funny, it's kind of "Back to where it all began" since it's the same scene I tried to model with Sketchup one year ago, as my earliest attempt to contribute.
By the way, I intend to reuse the texture I made for the previous scene. Not only it will make both environments consistent (which is actually not the case of the original images), but that should also speed up my work.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
All renders for colne_b3 are completed, and layered
I'll import them in Palmer and then upload the moded scene to the repo tonight. This one is well and truly finished (until we decide to aim at 4K resolution
). In the meantime, here's the base layer as a "sample":
I'm also making good progress on the other sewer scene (colne_b1), I hope to post an update soon.
[EDIT - UPDATE]: I've uploaded the Full Res (5x5) field images to the Repo of the final versions, under Fields/colne_b3. The images colne_b3_00_00, colne_b3_01_00 and colne_b3_02_00 are to be placed in <modpath>/field/colne_b3/.
I have also made a 50% size (2.5 x 2.5) open to everyone. You'll find the images on the links below (again to be placed in <modpath>/field/colne_b3/):
http://imageshack.us/a/img94/1145/w34r.png has to be renamed colne_b3_00_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img89/2922/suma.png has to be renamed colne_b3_01_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img38/3136/5j84.png has to be renamed colne_b3_02_00.
Please have a try, and enjoy!
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sl1982
Guest
Ooh 4k. Anyone have a 4k monitor yet?
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Here's a small progress update on colne_b1. In fact, it can show you that the sewer scenes will be 4K ready. By the time we can reach completion of this project, probably 4K or 8K will be the norm
(The target on the image is just Blender's cursor).
Credits to my girlfriend for the image on the poster, especially since drawing the guy made her shiver with disgust
(The target on the image is just Blender's cursor).
Credits to my girlfriend for the image on the poster, especially since drawing the guy made her shiver with disgust
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LeonhartGR
Guest
Well done for the GF! I love handmade drawing!
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