D
dkma841
Guest
4k, 8k? The file size will be immense 
1080p is good enough imo
1080p is good enough imo
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C
Cyberman
Guest
I think you might be a bit confused. The rendering image resolution is different than the background bitmap resolution. None of the backgrounds are 320x216 for example but instead might be 512x272. The background consists of tile sets and the background is generated by using these tiles to make up the background layers (on the Ps1 it was done in real time as the screen panned) The actual screen was 1 block (16pixels) wider both vertically and horizontally to allow the tiles to be added on the edges I believe (I could be wrong however).4k, 8k? The file size will be immense
Anyhow the actual resolution they are talking about is the background resolution not the screen resolution. Of course that affects how 'good' it looks on the screen in the end.
Anyhow I could be wrong but I think that is what they are talking about.
Cyb
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dkma841
Guest
I see... i think ;D
Well if it doesn't affect file size then great
;D Well if it doesn't affect file size then great
M
Mayo Master
Guest
First I would like to clear things up, regarding resolution and image sizes...
Given that we want to play in HD, we do need to deliver images that are (theoretically) 4.5 x 4.5 larger than the originals. To round the figures, we aim at 5 x 5 resolution (some argue that 4 x 4 may be enough at this point, though). As Cyb mention, many images exceed the original 320 x 216 size. Mostly, these correspond to fields where moving characters scrolls through a scene (the background image needs to be larger than the screen). The "field textures" which result from the Palmer process, those which are to be used as mod files, are squares which are 5 x 5 (or 4 x 4) times 216 x 216. If a background is particularly large (or if there are animations), one field is eventually made with a combination of several square field textures.
I was wondering that, by the time we may be remotely near the completion of this project, 4K displays may actually be the norm. In that case, it would still be possible for us to generate 4K compatible backgrounds, provided our current scenes offer enough detail. The only thing to change on our end is the render size (9x9). Hopefully computational power will increase to an extent that would allow us to make these renders in a decent amount of time. Inevitably, if you want to play at 4K resolution, the size of all field textures will have to be 1944 x 1944 (versus 1280 x 1280 that I currently deliver).
By the way, as an anecdote, I am using very high resolution textures to make the colne_b1 scene. One of them is about 14000x2000.
Anyway, I also wanted to make a progress update on colne_b1, I think I manage some decent progress fairly quickly. I hope you'll enjoy.
Given that we want to play in HD, we do need to deliver images that are (theoretically) 4.5 x 4.5 larger than the originals. To round the figures, we aim at 5 x 5 resolution (some argue that 4 x 4 may be enough at this point, though). As Cyb mention, many images exceed the original 320 x 216 size. Mostly, these correspond to fields where moving characters scrolls through a scene (the background image needs to be larger than the screen). The "field textures" which result from the Palmer process, those which are to be used as mod files, are squares which are 5 x 5 (or 4 x 4) times 216 x 216. If a background is particularly large (or if there are animations), one field is eventually made with a combination of several square field textures.
I was wondering that, by the time we may be remotely near the completion of this project, 4K displays may actually be the norm. In that case, it would still be possible for us to generate 4K compatible backgrounds, provided our current scenes offer enough detail. The only thing to change on our end is the render size (9x9). Hopefully computational power will increase to an extent that would allow us to make these renders in a decent amount of time. Inevitably, if you want to play at 4K resolution, the size of all field textures will have to be 1944 x 1944 (versus 1280 x 1280 that I currently deliver).
By the way, as an anecdote, I am using very high resolution textures to make the colne_b1 scene. One of them is about 14000x2000.
Anyway, I also wanted to make a progress update on colne_b1, I think I manage some decent progress fairly quickly. I hope you'll enjoy.
C
Cyberman
Guest
About 4K displays, it is extremely unlikely they will be the norm.
I had a long diatribe typed up regarding this but let me clue you in 4K is a lie.
What I mean is it is just yet another thing you don't need. In fact you can't even use 4K 2560 is actually at the resolution limits of the physical eye. You might see a LITTLE bit more on a 4K monitor IF you are younger than 20 years old and you are 1 out of 10 people with REALLY GOOD eyesight. If you are starting to understand what I am saying, you will also have to realizes that 4K also requires a detailed analyisis and video editing to make the video actually visually discernable at that resolution (meaning they have to play with spectral and lumanance output very carefully to force your eyes to actually see ANY DIFFERENCE).
That's the truth, others will tell you something else however it is only because they want to SELL SOMETHING. Much like the forced move in the US to HD had nothing to do with actually seeing anything better (really the broadcast bands were being adjusted to sell bandwidth of existing TV stations for CELL phone usage MONEY in other words was the motive). Same goes with 4K it's purely someone wanting to make more money off of ... you.
If you are truely curious hit wikipedia and look at the information regarding the human eye. In particular look at the eyes response to spectra and intensity. The eye is really an interesting device, it has spectra sensitivity shifts depending on relative brightness, this also affects what resolution you see things at (which also turns into yet another non linearity aspect in your eye). Gamma adjustments on monitors exist for numerous reasons (your eyes non linear response to lumanance and the spectra shift issue I just mentioned for example).
Cyb
I had a long diatribe typed up regarding this but let me clue you in 4K is a lie.
What I mean is it is just yet another thing you don't need. In fact you can't even use 4K 2560 is actually at the resolution limits of the physical eye. You might see a LITTLE bit more on a 4K monitor IF you are younger than 20 years old and you are 1 out of 10 people with REALLY GOOD eyesight. If you are starting to understand what I am saying, you will also have to realizes that 4K also requires a detailed analyisis and video editing to make the video actually visually discernable at that resolution (meaning they have to play with spectral and lumanance output very carefully to force your eyes to actually see ANY DIFFERENCE).
That's the truth, others will tell you something else however it is only because they want to SELL SOMETHING. Much like the forced move in the US to HD had nothing to do with actually seeing anything better (really the broadcast bands were being adjusted to sell bandwidth of existing TV stations for CELL phone usage MONEY in other words was the motive). Same goes with 4K it's purely someone wanting to make more money off of ... you.
If you are truely curious hit wikipedia and look at the information regarding the human eye. In particular look at the eyes response to spectra and intensity. The eye is really an interesting device, it has spectra sensitivity shifts depending on relative brightness, this also affects what resolution you see things at (which also turns into yet another non linearity aspect in your eye). Gamma adjustments on monitors exist for numerous reasons (your eyes non linear response to lumanance and the spectra shift issue I just mentioned for example).
Cyb
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Covarr
Guest
That really depends on screen size, and how far your eyes are from it. The difference between 4K and 2.5K would absolutely be visible to quite a few people on an Oculus Rift, or on a movie screen large enough you can't see the whole thing at once.
4K for a standard 20" monitor, or even a 60" TV at six feet away, is slightly overkill, but it's better to have too much resolution than not enough if you don't want to be able to tell the difference.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Time for an update!
BY the way, I would agree more with Covarr, it all depends on the size of the display. For that matter, the original FF7 still looks decent when played on a PSP, however if it's displayed on a 40" HD TV it really sucks. Besides, it doesn't hurt to be ready for greater resolution display. Better be ready for a change in case it happens, than feel sorry for ourselves if we hadn't planned for it while having the capabilities to do so.
Anyway, here's the progress update... (this render was made with 100 samples, that's why it's a tad noisy).
So... actually it's very close to completion. In fact most of the remaining job needs to be handled by the computer. It's going to take a while, but it won't need much input on my part and I can start working on another scene. Basically, I'll need to run the fluid simulation and make all the renders (with 7 extra renders for animating the flow). Probably that will take about 3 weeks.
As a side note: I enjoyed using the rigid body simulation for making the pile of junk. Maybe I should make a quick tutorial on it, since it may come in handy for many scenes in the slums (or North Corel).
By the way, has anyone tried to play with my mod of colne_b3 yet?
BY the way, I would agree more with Covarr, it all depends on the size of the display. For that matter, the original FF7 still looks decent when played on a PSP, however if it's displayed on a 40" HD TV it really sucks. Besides, it doesn't hurt to be ready for greater resolution display. Better be ready for a change in case it happens, than feel sorry for ourselves if we hadn't planned for it while having the capabilities to do so.
Anyway, here's the progress update... (this render was made with 100 samples, that's why it's a tad noisy).
So... actually it's very close to completion. In fact most of the remaining job needs to be handled by the computer. It's going to take a while, but it won't need much input on my part and I can start working on another scene. Basically, I'll need to run the fluid simulation and make all the renders (with 7 extra renders for animating the flow). Probably that will take about 3 weeks.
As a side note: I enjoyed using the rigid body simulation for making the pile of junk. Maybe I should make a quick tutorial on it, since it may come in handy for many scenes in the slums (or North Corel).
By the way, has anyone tried to play with my mod of colne_b3 yet?
K
Kaldarasha
Guest
I even have changed the light for the models.
Original light color:
Altered light color:
It is really amazing to see the new scene in action. Great work!
Original light color:
Altered light color:
It is really amazing to see the new scene in action. Great work!
M
Mayo Master
Guest
I'm glad you liked it! Actually I have been using your awesome character models to verify the scale of the objects in the scene, they've been really useful.
In fact, I have been wondering how it could be possible to modify the lighting for the 3d models, given the large variety of lighting exposure across the scenes. How did you do that?
By the way, do you have access to the full resolution field scene (in the file repository of Team Avalanche)? I made only the 50% resolution open to everyone. If you don't have them, I can send you the 100% resolution field files by email if you wish.
In fact, I have been wondering how it could be possible to modify the lighting for the 3d models, given the large variety of lighting exposure across the scenes. How did you do that?
By the way, do you have access to the full resolution field scene (in the file repository of Team Avalanche)? I made only the 50% resolution open to everyone. If you don't have them, I can send you the 100% resolution field files by email if you wish.
K
Kaldarasha
Guest
In Makou Reactor you can change the global light for a model in the field:
The right color of the pallet is the one which is used in a field.
But it's not possible to change the direction from where the light comes from.
Anyway I plan to do it for whole Midgar.
For the moment I'm happy with the 50% resolution. It gives a good preview of what could be done to the backgrounds.
The right color of the pallet is the one which is used in a field.
But it's not possible to change the direction from where the light comes from.
Anyway I plan to do it for whole Midgar.
For the moment I'm happy with the 50% resolution. It gives a good preview of what could be done to the backgrounds.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Small update on my part: after quite a lot of tinkering, my fluid simulation is done. Yay! The damn thing needed max resolution and 1500 frames to calculate!
So I'll start the renders in a bit, I'll update that as they're done. They're going to take ages, since I'll need a huge amount of samples for a 2560 x 2080 picture
So I'll start the renders in a bit, I'll update that as they're done. They're going to take ages, since I'll need a huge amount of samples for a 2560 x 2080 picture
K
KnifeTheSky77
Guest
I can't wait to see the glorious HD render. ;D I had absolutely no concept of render time or 3d modelling before I started following this thread
so bear with me here. How many samples do you think the scene you are rendering will need and how
long exactly does it take to go from model to render in this case?
so bear with me here. How many samples do you think the scene you are rendering will need and how
long exactly does it take to go from model to render in this case?
M
Mayo Master
Guest
I've started rendering the animation frames of the sewage flow, and so far it's nowhere near as bad as I expected. It takes less than 8 hours to render a frame (but it's just the sewage flow being rendered there). The whole picture (which makes the base layer) will take much longer to render - probably 2 to 3 days. I'm using 3000 samples. Usually that number is overkill, but in my case it is necessary because a/more samples are needed when you have materials using "glass" type of shaders (and the sewage flow is just like that) b/ more samples are needed in scenes where the light is dim. My case is a happy combination of both situations. After 3000 samples, I don't even have a noiseless image of the flow, but in our case it won't be really noticeable because it'll be animated.
C
Cyberman
Guest
LOL I remember my ray tracing experimentation and waiting a week just to see the output. Resolution was much lower, and these days I have 4-cores so the render happens a LOT faster. Still a few days sounds about right. OpenCL implementations make it easier to do a pipelined method of tracing and rendering, unfortunately I'm not sure blender has support for OpenCL in windows or linux.Small update on my part: after quite a lot of tinkering, my fluid simulation is done. Yay! The damn thing needed max resolution and 1500 frames to calculate!
So I'll start the renders in a bit, I'll update that as they're done. They're going to take ages, since I'll need a huge amount of samples for a 2560 x 2080 picture
Cyb
Cyb
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Small progress update: I have to redo my renders because the main scene has been eventually rendered with a lot of "fireflies" (the glass bottles were riddled with them). I found some good setting to eliminate them, however it changes the lighting of the scene a tiny bit, so it's best I re-render the other frames (those of the sewage flow). It shouldn't take too long however. Then I'll have to arrange the layers. It should be all finished in the course of next week.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Update: HD render of colne_b1. I'm currently re-rendering the animation frames of the sewage flow, I'll also have to render a couple of extra layers and compile them in Palmer before making the scene playable in game. I removed the fireflies by setting a "Clamp" value to 2.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Hi folks,
After some delays (work going insane, Windows 8 making a crash of doom, mostly), I finally managed to complete my works on colne_b1. It's layered and ready to go, ending up being 6 images (each being 1280 x 1280). The files are uploaded in the Final versions repository, under /Field Scenes/colne_b1/.
For people who don't have access to the repo, I've uploaded a 50% size version open to everyone, if there are other people willing to try it out.
http://imageshack.us/a/img10/2781/jedj.png has to be renamed colne_b1_00_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img6/526/4llx.png has to be renamed colne_b1_01_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/9743/2h8s.png has to be renamed colne_b1_02_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/149/tijq.png has to be renamed colne_b1_03_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/656/vkt1.png has to be renamed colne_b1_04_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7060/axa8.png has to be renamed colne_b1_05_00.
These images simply need to be placed in /mods/<modpath>/field/colne_b1/ within your Final Fantasy VII directory.
Please enjoy.
After some delays (work going insane, Windows 8 making a crash of doom, mostly), I finally managed to complete my works on colne_b1. It's layered and ready to go, ending up being 6 images (each being 1280 x 1280). The files are uploaded in the Final versions repository, under /Field Scenes/colne_b1/.
For people who don't have access to the repo, I've uploaded a 50% size version open to everyone, if there are other people willing to try it out.
http://imageshack.us/a/img10/2781/jedj.png has to be renamed colne_b1_00_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img6/526/4llx.png has to be renamed colne_b1_01_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/9743/2h8s.png has to be renamed colne_b1_02_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/149/tijq.png has to be renamed colne_b1_03_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/656/vkt1.png has to be renamed colne_b1_04_00.
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7060/axa8.png has to be renamed colne_b1_05_00.
These images simply need to be placed in /mods/<modpath>/field/colne_b1/ within your Final Fantasy VII directory.
Please enjoy.
M
Mayo Master
Guest
sl1982 agreed that I should go ahead and release the HD scenes, so here they are:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/y2l2pe3t827e5yy/Sewer_fields.7z
Enjoy!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/y2l2pe3t827e5yy/Sewer_fields.7z
Enjoy!
M
Mayo Master
Guest
Hi folks,
Very small progress update on my part: my actual work has become completely insane and I have very little time left with enough brain capability to work on Blender these days. I expect the situation to last until Xmas. I should be able to get actively back to 3d modelling during the holidays.
I spent what I could on the main Sector 5 field screen (not much, but that's the best that could be done):
Very small progress update on my part: my actual work has become completely insane and I have very little time left with enough brain capability to work on Blender these days. I expect the situation to last until Xmas. I should be able to get actively back to 3d modelling during the holidays.
I spent what I could on the main Sector 5 field screen (not much, but that's the best that could be done):
L
LeonhartGR
Guest
Keep it up mate! Looking forward for X-mas.
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