New Project: Final Fantasy VII 2D remake

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Using "only" story, characters and art from Square. All of which are exactly the "particular way an author has expressed himself" - which the Copyright Office's site talks about.

They don't have to resell or enhance, it's about as copyright infringement as you can get.
 
Who ever said that the team quit developing CT:R? Maybe they are still working on it, but in secrecy, you never know... Besides what are they going to do with all of their work so far? Delete it b/c square told them to? No, I think there is still hope. Did luke turn to the dark side b/c  Vader and the emperor told him to?

--RPGillespie
 
Does it matter if they are still working on it? They could in no way release it even if it was/is complete anymore.
 
Or, they can lie and say someone hacked there pc and stole all there stuff and etc... And released it... Theres many ways. Or be descrete about it and upload it to a torrent or emule or some kind of shared program and make some bs about it and say that it got accidently uploaded. Many ways. Use the knowledge of the force.  :o
 
Joseph, you're wierd.

Though I'm suspecting that's how the GTA SA "Sex mod" got released.  I'd be williong to bet the developers purposly leaked it =P
 
Or, they can lie and say someone hacked there pc and stole all there stuff and etc... And released it...
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Except that if you've done something serious enough that the FBI or whatever equivalent security organization wants you (alleged damages over X dollars), they're going to check ISP logs, grab your PC and find out the truth via forensics. I don't actually know how mad the company would be if you weaseled around a cease and desist letter, but I can guess. Isn't it irrelevant if you don't get a C&D until it's too late if you *knew* you were going to get one by holding back the release? I know I'm not going to try it.

Or be descrete about it and upload it to a torrent or emule or some kind of shared program and make some bs about it and say that it got accidently uploaded.
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Unfortunately those programs are not very discrete. Bit Torrent broadcasts your IP to the tracker and anyone you connect to in the swarm. Last I heard Emule still accidentally broadcasts IP addresses (and potentially dangerous data) to anyone who wants to listen.
 
Since Joseph is gone now, we can talk about the FF/ new engine thing here, I think.

I have an idea.
When we're going to re-write the FF7 engine, we should sum up all the things we want to implement. All we want to improve. All new features we want to add. So that we have a concrete concept of what we are aiming at.
Then, someone should write a letter to square, not an email, a real piece of paper with black int on it. We should tell them all that stuff I listed above, so they get the idea of what we want to do.
Maybe they will give us the permission.

I know the chance of getting a permission is lower than beeing hit by the lightning, (or "Ride the Lightning" as Metallica would say :P ) but I think it may be worth a try.
At least we will know what they think of it.

What do you think?

 - Alhexx
 
I think we would need a strong argument to convince them. Even a "we're going to pay you royalties" would be better than nothing, but I think that even a "we're going to pay you royalties" would make our chances still get lower than being hit twice by a lightning.
Just my two cents. I'm sure we wouldn't have this problem remaking Warcraft 2 Engine  :(
 
"We will pay you royalties" would be an almost ironical statement as the project would likely be non-profit.

However if this ever gets off the ground I would happily pen and write the letter (us canadians are good at writing angry or demanding letters  :wink: )
 
I think it would sound a bit dumd considerating our current situation, but definitely not ironical. Many serious projects with educational purposes or other non-profit projects that uses third-partner copyrights pay them royalties, it's a common practice here. A non-profit project using their properties is not much different from a comercial project using their properties. The difference is that a comercial project will suffer a much heavier attack, due to an obvious abuse of copyrights I doubt any company would tolerate.

Seems that the FF7 Engine idea is running for some long time. I'm all for it, and would gladly do any graphics/layouts if necessary. I just think that the project would need first and foremost organization, and a list of volunteers in order to split the tasks.

Edit: IMO, ironical is Eidos publishing an unnoficial patch in their website, direct linking to the author's host. There are many things very wrong with this (I don't think I even need to coment) but at least they were minding the welfare of the players. John Carmack has once done this too, though he has gone a bit further and implemented the patch in the engine. I think that Squaresoft would instead complain that the Chocobo Patch is illegal ;)
 
I don't see how a new Engine would run into any legal issues, so as long as the CD protection is still in place and it still uses the original (or most of) the original game files.

I mean, that's usually what allows more YARE/ROSE servers to run.
 
It's simple, KojiroTakenashi. I will quote Square-Enix:

All game materials, including, but not limited to, their design, text, graphics, screen shots, files are copyrighted by SQUARE ENIX Co., Ltd.  All rights reserved. Any other use of materials of our games -- including any commercial use, reproduction for purposes other than that noted above, modification, distribution, or republication -- without the prior written permission of SQUARE ENIX is strictly prohibited. No materials of our games may be used on any other product, published, or otherwise performed in public.  For any further inquiries regarding copyrights, give our main office line a call at (310) 846-0345 and the receptionist will direct you toward the proper contacts within the company.
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Using "most of" the original game files for anything would be illegal, and a little pointless I think, since we would be redoing the whole thing. Making the engine using anything of the previous game, like their names, design, the system etc would also fall within this description.
 
We should tell them all that stuff I listed above, so they get the idea of what we want to do.
Maybe they will give us the permission.
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What are you planning to do when they don't give it?

Ignorance is not a valid defense in court, but by not directly asking you are giving them the opportunity to ignore you, if they so wish.
 
I don't think we need to worry about legal matters TOO much.  Afterall, things like the hand patch mod, the high-res mod, the high-poly Cloud replacement mod, the battle-field conversion mod, and even LGP tools is a "violation" of the EULA, in that we are modifying the game, which they say is fohibited.

Then again, recreating a game is a whole 'nother can of worms than tweaking existing game data and inter-swapping files with eachother...
 
and even LGP tools is a "violation" of the EULA, in that we are modifying the game, which they say is fohibited.
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There is no EULA for the PC version is there?  I cant see it on the installation program, nor in the manual...
 
Well, the implied one that Elentor posted.  And i think it DOES have a small eula.. but it's not really one, more of a "disclaimer"  I don't even think it makes you agree.

I'd double-check, but fraggit, i cant find my install cd >=O
 
I don´t know how it´s in other countries, but in Germany the situation is like this:

Shop buys game from the distributor (Square direct or another, at ff8 it may be Eidos)

You buy the game from the shop, so you have only a contract with the shop, not with Square or the publisher...

So you can ignore the EULA...

You can do with the software as long as you don´t break the copyright rules of your country...

This includes:

don´t make copies of the game an sell it (or using P2P...),
don´t take parts of the game and sell it under your name...

I don´t know if its illegal to rev. eng. it.
But i don´t think if you write a new Engine, and you can download it for free, Square can anything do against it..
They would have no financial losses, especially because these are old games...

Even they make a Remake, everyone would still buy it...

A Example:

Would it be illegal if I own a book, scan every page, send it through my OCR, and print it out with another font?
I don´t think that this could break a copyright law, because i own it, and i can do with it whatever i want, only the local copyright laws say what i cant do with it. If i don´t have the right to print the book out with another font, then it wouldnt be allowed to also write notes into the book or paint some drawings into the book...
 
Would it be illegal if I own a book, scan every page, send it through my OCR, and print it out with another font?
I don´t think that this could break a copyright law, because i own it, and i can do with it whatever i want, only the local copyright laws say what i cant do with it. If i don´t have the right to print the book out with another font, then it wouldnt be allowed to also write notes into the book or paint some drawings into the book...
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Welcome to the glorious world of computers, where people are hard at work trying to make precisely things like that illegal. Or, if you're less lucky and live in the wrong country, those things already are illegal. Rule of thumb: metaphors from "real life" make poor legal defense in intellectual property law. Also the law doesn't include the wording "if the copyright holder loses money", nor should you trust the average gamer to be able to properly judge the value of the rights to a game like FF7, or be able to determine when someone is losing money in relation to said rights.

If things were as easy as claiming they don't lose money on such loose grounds, piracy would be totally accepted by companies since simply copying a program still leaves the original disc fully intact, so nothing has been stolen and they "haven't lost any money". The argument that Square-Enix wouldn't lose any money by allowing a fan-coded remake to exist is about as well-founded.

There are at least three good reasons for Square not to let you do a remake (not even by silently ignoring it):
  • The FF7 rights are worth gold, yet Square isn't getting any money from people using them.
  • The remake could generate bad PR (for whatever reason), destroying Square's own market for other FF7-related items.
  • Square would probably have to endorse the project, or risk losing their trademarks. And if they're willing to invest in a remake, they're not going to let some kids be in charge of it; they'll do it themselves.
Still, not asking is going to get you a lot further than asking. WIth 99.9% probability though, nothing is going to get you all the way, i.e. you will be shut down once you reach "critical publicity".
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Qhimm: I didn't think about your 3 points... especially the 2nd one.

But what I was aiming at is not asking to get a simple permission to write an own engine, but cooperate with Square. I was not going to make an real independent FF7 engine, but just something as "doing the dirty work" for Square. So we develop it, and they publish it under their copyright. That's what I was thinking about.

 - Alhexx
 
I don´t know how it´s in other countries, but in Germany the situation is like this:

Shop buys game from the distributor (Square direct or another, at ff8 it may be Eidos)

You buy the game from the shop, so you have only a contract with the shop, not with Square or the publisher...

So you can ignore the EULA...
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This, coupled with Oktoberfest, Blind Guardian, and gothic girls is what make me so much want to go to Germany after travelling to Japan...
 
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